Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Sun, 11 Nov 1990 02:27:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Sun, 11 Nov 1990 02:27:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V12 #527 SPACE Digest Volume 12 : Issue 527 Today's Topics: LNLL Inflatable Stations ISU ? (International Space Univ) Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap * SpaceNews 05-Nov-90 * A slightly silly thought Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription notices, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 2 Nov 90 16:28:27 GMT From: ub!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu!v071pzp4@rutgers.edu (Craig L Cole) Organization: University at Buffalo Subject: LNLL Inflatable Stations Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu I like LNLL's approach to a space station - inflatable modules, but I keep wondering: Sure, the module's themselves won't weigh much, and will be easy to launch, but how do you equip them? Is the eqipment installed after inflation or before? On Freedom, everything is simply installed inside the modules before launch. Another question, on all of the artists conceptions I've seen of the LNLL station, there are no windows. Are any planned? Freedom won't have many windows, but it does have the observation node which should give a spectacular 180 degree view. A lot of doctors have said this is important to relieve the clausterphobic effects of living in a small place. One thing I did like about LNLL was the ability to spin the station if wanted for artificial gravity. This will be great to keep the astronauts physically fit, but won't the Coriolis effects, even for light gravity be pronounced on such a small station? I like LNLL's idea, but I haven't heard anything about this stuff. Funny, I started this posting with only one question... Craig Cole V071PZP4@UBVMS.BITNET V071PZP4@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 90 19:15:56 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!tcdcs!swift.cs.tcd.ie!ccvax.ucd.ie!mhoey@uunet.uu.net Subject: ISU ? (International Space Univ) Hi - Just a quickie - does anyone out there know anything about the International Space University ? A friend mentioned it to me, but he's gone postgradding elsewhere now, and I can't get in touch with him to get the info again... any help gratefully received. Neil Conway MHOEY@CCVAX.UCD.IE or MHOEY@CCVAX.BITNET or H146-002@IRLEARN.BITNET... NB: Please mail as I'll prob. not see the n.group again for a week or 2. thanks. ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: Sat, 3 Nov 90 20:55:48 -0500 From: "Allen W. Sherzer" To: space+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap Newsgroups: sci.space In-Reply-To: <1471.2730808A@ofa123.fidonet.org> Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow Cc: In article <1471.2730808A@ofa123.fidonet.org> David Anderman writes: >Allen, how do you propose taking the LLNL proposal beyond the arguing >with Charles Radley level? Since all that is stopping LLNL at this point >is the political environment, what is being done to change the >environment? The program will have enough money next year to fund ~7 people. I assume they will continue design work on the modules. At the grassroots, we need to have people write and meet with their representatives. If any of your representative sits on the Energy and Water Development subcommittee of the Appropriations committee this is expecially important. If you don't know your representatives comittee, write me and I'll let you know. In addition, letters to NASA and the Space Council would help. The single biggest thing holding the Great Exploration up is turf battles with NASA. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Allen W. Sherzer| I had a guaranteed military sale with ED-209. Renovation | | aws@iti.org | programs, spare parts for 25 years. Who cares if it | | | works or not? - Dick Jones, VP OCP Security Concepts | ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 3 Nov 90 22:48:55 GMT From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucsd.edu (Henry Spencer) Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Subject: Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap References: <0093F1AE.5AE929E0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU>, <9011021617.AA08225@iti.org>, <0093F1DA.1F2A5920@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU> Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu In article <0093F1DA.1F2A5920@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU> sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) writes: >Space is the most hostile environment known to man (aside from the deep blue >sea and Chernobyl)... Nonsense. There are many Earthly environments that are far more hostile than open space, because they are much less predictable and much less controllable. Space is actually quite a benign environment, given proper preparations. (Well, low Earth orbit is getting a bit unpleasant due to the space-debris problem, but other than that, the statement holds.) The hostility of open space is much overrated, or rather, the raw hostility of Earth environments is much underrated. Six-year-old Saskatchewan kids routinely walk to school unaccompanied in an environment that would kill an unprotected human almost as quickly as open space would. I recall an incident in high school when I went out the door into a brisk wind at maybe -20 or so, dropped some papers, hastily shed my clumsy mittens to pick the papers up before they blew away... and then headed back indoors at a dead run, because after less than thirty seconds of exposure, I couldn't feel anything below my wrists. No actual injury, as it turned out, but thoroughly terrifying. Few people appreciate just how deadly our "normal" environment can be if we let our guard down. -- "I don't *want* to be normal!" | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology "Not to worry." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 3 Nov 90 22:58:32 GMT From: swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucsd.edu (Henry Spencer) Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Subject: Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap References: <0093F1AE.5AE929E0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU>, <9011021617.AA08225@iti.org>, <0093F1DA.1F2A5920@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU> Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu In article <0093F1DA.1F2A5920@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU> sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) writes: >>Wroking on military aircraft is not the same as commercial. You face a >>totally different set of tradeoffs. > >... You must be kidding. The base technologies and knowledgebase which >Boeing had at that time was equally applicable... As witness the spectacular failures of aerospace-company ventures into things like mass transit in the early 1970s, not so. The basic technologies are applicable, yes, but as Allen points out, the *tradeoffs* are completely different. Boeing had the knowledge to build a workable airliner, yes, but that is very different from building a *successful* one. If the 707 had had the maintenance requirements and operating costs of most then-current military systems, it would have been a commercial disaster despite technical success. In fact, the airlines were braced for trouble, and vastly overspent on things like spare parts. >...Getaway Special on a shuttle or on a sub-orbital launch is different from >building a large platform which people can live and work in... Quite true. Of course, by this standard, most of the NASA centers involved in the space station are incompetent for the job too, since only one (MSFC) has ever built anything like this before. (JSC arguably might qualify due to the shuttle orbiter, but launchers and space stations are very different.) -- "I don't *want* to be normal!" | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology "Not to worry." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 3 Nov 90 02:40:27 GMT From: usc!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!rpi!masscomp!ocpt!tsdiag!ka2qhd!kd2bd@ucsd.edu (John Magliacane) Organization: KA2QHD - OCEAN NJ Subject: * SpaceNews 05-Nov-90 * Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu SB SPACE @ ALLBBS < KD2BD $SPC1105 * SpaceNews 05-Nov-90 * Bulletin ID: $SPC1105 ========= SpaceNews ========= MONDAY NOVEMBER 5, 1990 SpaceNews originates at KD2BD in Wall Township, New Jersey, United States. It is published every week and is made available for unlimited distribution. * PIONEER 11 STATUS * ===================== The Pioneer 11 spacecraft emergency support continues with 70 meter antennas in high power transmitter uplink configuration. Non-coherent downlink telemetry has been processed by the Ames Research Center. Following the uplink with the 70 meter antenna in Spain on 28-Oct-90, the 70 meter antenna in Goldstone was unable to acquire 3 way downlink. The project at Ames reports commands are getting into the Pioneer 11 spacecraft, but the planned receiver swap was not successful. [Information via JPL] * MAIL BAG * ============ I've been receiving quite a few questions recently about DOVE-1/OSCAR-17. First of all, DOVE transmits on a frequency of 145.825 MHz FM. This downlink carries spacecraft telemetry (AX.25 AFSK packet radio format) as well as synthesized voice transmissions. To date only telemetry has been carried on DOVE's downlink as spacecraft testing continues. After new software has been loaded and tested on DOVE, the Votrax speech messages should be heard. It should also be mentioned that DOVE-1 does not have mailbox capabilities. It was designed primarily for downlinking digitized voice messages to Earth. Q: Could you carry Keplerian orbital data in SpaceNews? A: Since there are other outlets for Keplerian orbital data, I would rather not repeat that information here. (Sorry!) Q: Are they any satellites that I can access with an HT? A: Well, you could get a signal into RS10 or RS11 on Mode A with nothing more than a handheld 2-meter transceiver if you were to key the PTT button with CW, but this usually results in a very chirpy signal! FM and other "constant carrier" emissions should be avoided when communicating through amateur satellite transponders. Q: Is "SpaceNews" associated with the trade journal "Space News"? A: No. "SpaceNews" has been in existance since November 1987. It is dedicated to topics of interest to Amateur Radio operators worldwide and is non-profit publication without connection to any organization, public or private. * OSCAR-13 NEWS * ================= Command Stations performed magnetorquing procedures near perigee of orbits on October 15-17. The new transponder schedule is as follows: Mode-B : MA 000 to 095 Mode-JL: MA 095 to 125 Mode-LS: MA 125 to 130 Mode-S : MA 130 to 135 Mode-BS: MA 135 to 140 Mode-B : MA 140 to 256 Omnis : MA 220 to 040 This schedule is expected to continue throu 26-Dec-90. The spacecraft attitude is BLON = 180 and BLAT = 0. * TNX QSL! * ============ A special thanks to all those who sent QSLs, cards and letters to SpaceNews: DL6OAQ: Otto Anna, visting Portland, Oregon, U.S.A. KE2NK : Joe Isbell, Moriches, New York, U.S.A. KE2UN : John Kiernan, New York, New York, U.S.A. N5JTA : Glenn Neesley, Deming, New Mexico, U.S.A. KA5BOU: Craig Young, Plano, Texas, U.S.A. KB2FID: Doug Smith, Glendale School, Tonawanda, New York, U.S.A. WA6WZO: Fried Heyn, Costa Mesa, California, U.S.A. WB2DHY: Phil Lorito, Holtsville, New York, U.S.A. WB3JCE: Dick Stauffer, Wayne, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. W3EAG : Tom Gibson, Plymouth Meeting, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. ...and e-mail messages: G4KLX : Jonathan Naylor, Cromford, Derbyshire, England KA3BZQ: Jan Slater, Randallstown, Maryland, U.S.A. KA3OIT: Jack Hienz, Fombell, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. SM5RNP: Borje, Balsta, Sweden WB7ESQ: Elio WB9USI: Dave, Racine, Wisconsin, U.S.A. WD4EVD: Greg, Georgia, U.S.A. WD8CHL: Jim Barbour, Berlin Heights, Ohio, U.S.A. * FEEDBACK WELCOMED * ===================== Feedback regarding SpaceNews can be directed to the editor (John) via any of the following paths: UUCP : kd2bd@ka2qhd.de.com AMPR : KD2BD @ NN2Z.NJ.USA.NA MAIL : John A. Magliacane Department of Electronics Technology Advanced Technology Center Brookdale Community College 765 Newman Springs Road Lincroft, New Jersey 07738 U.S.A. << If you like what you see, send us your QSL card! >> /EX -- John A. Magliacane FAX : (908) 747-7107 Electronics Technology Department AMPR : KD2BD @ NN2Z.NJ.USA.NA Brookdale Community College UUCP : ...!rutgers!ka2qhd!kd2bd Lincroft, NJ 07738 USA VOICE: (908) 842-1900 ext 607 ------------------------------ Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Date: 3 Nov 90 10:46:02 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!samsung!munnari.oz.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!hydra!francis@decwrl.dec.com (Francis Vaughan) Organization: Adelaide Univerity, Computer Science Subject: A slightly silly thought Sender: space-request@andrew.cmu.edu To: space@andrew.cmu.edu This must have occured to someone before but... If the shuttle has to abort its launch and land on the other side of the Atlantic, does it qualify for the Trans-Atlantic speed record? Similarly, if it were to abort a bit later and land back in the US, if it were to land back a KSC (it doesn't, it lands at Edwards AFB, but this is hypothetical) would it count for a round the world record? or maybe the second craft to fly around the world non-stop? I suspect that a short venture into space is what would disqualify such a flight. On a more technical note, does the shuttle need to fire the OMS rockets to get down from such a abort cleanly? Does the shuttle undergo the rigours of a normal reentry? I guess the answers are no, and yes, but I'm curious. Francis Vaughan. ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V12 #527 *******************